I read one of Andrew's newest blogs on http://rowboatandmarbles.org/blog and I was reading this post: http://rowboatandmarbles.org/getting-real-about-masturbation.html
especially the comments at the bottom. I think all addicts should leave a comment for Andrew. Here's mine.
I
am LDS and I don’t live in Utah. I was raised Mormon but inactive. I’m addicted
to lust/porn/masturbation/sex. I went through varying degrees of activity in
the church. Especially once I was caught in my lies about pornography
consumption and my addiction came to light. I started going to church all the
time. And I began to feel guilty about “church
stuff”. For instance, I would forget to pray at night, and then while lying in
bed I’d realize I forgot to pray and feel guilty that I forgot to pray and told
myself that if I didn’t pray I wasn’t doing the right thing and then most
likely my day would suck tomorrow. So I’d pray, but I’d pray in bed, and then I’d
feel guilty that I was praying in bed and not on my knees. Did that mean I didn’t
really care? Was I offending God? Was he disappointed that I wasn’t showing him
the proper sign of respect? That must mean that tomorrow my day would most
likely suck and it would be my fault. So I got out of bed and got on my knees
and prayed. And then, afterwards, I’d feel “guilty” I guess I should change all
the times I’ve said “guilty” in this post to shameful. I’d feel shameful
because I hadn’t addressed God in “thee” and “thou”. Wasn’t I supposed to do
that? Dang. That must mean that my prayer wasn’t that important and that God
wasn’t going to help me, and it was all my fault. These shame cycles happened
most when I went to church and read scriptures and all that on a regular basis.
Recently, like just last year, I
realized something profound. God didn’t want me to feel shameful about doing “churchy”
stuff. In fact, in my opinion, God would rather me NOT do those things, then to
do them because I didn’t want to feel shame for doing them. So I stopped. I
stopped doing a lot of “churchy” things and kept working on sobriety and step
work and addiction material. I even stopped going to church.
Guess what, I started to feel like
going to church. I started to feel like reading my scriptures. I started to feel
like praying. Do I do these things 100% all the time? No, but I can say that
for myself, I’ve come so much closer to God.
Why am I talking about all of this?
Because I agree with Andrew. Masturbation is bad for me. That’s a fact that I
live by. I don’t have an “addiction” because the church told me I did. In fact
most church members and even some higher officials would say that I DON’T have
an addiction. I haven’t gone to massage parlors, I haven’t gone to strip clubs,
I haven’t even bought pornographic material. I’ve viewed LOTS of it and acted
out to LOTS of it. But not as much as I’ve masturbated to my IMAGINATION.
This is what it does to me. Viewing
sexual things on a computer screen, tv, book, or primarily my brain, with or
without actually masturbating, (its all still masturbating to me, because like
Andrew said, if I’m stimulating a sex organ, with anyone other than my wife, I’m
breaking the law of Chastity.) It makes me desire that type of fantasy more
than reality. I WANT it to be my reality. And then I begin to live my life as
if that FANTASY should be REALITY. And the impossible truth is that it
will never be that way because fantasy isn’t reality.
I begin to feel depressed, rejected, not
of worth or importance, and carry HUGE resentments because reality isn’t what I
think it should be, which is my reality. This causes me to assume that my wife
must not love me because she doesn’t act how I think she should. My kids don’t
act how I think they should; my boss doesn’t act how I think he should. And I
in turn become passive aggressive and disconnect from those around me. This
also makes me WANT to seek that type of life. I daydream more often; I seek out
opportunities to engage with women. (nothing sexual, just eye contact, smiles,
friendly conversations, etc)
This will kill me. I might end up
contracting a disease, I might go to the wrong part of town and get killed, I
might get so distraught and depressed that I’ll kill myself. NOT BECAUSE OF THE
MASTURBATION, but because of the perceived injustice of my reality. But most
likely, I will live out the rest of my days alone in an apartment or small
house with no friends or family, but a house FULL of pornography. This is going
to happen. This isn’t a friendly “healthy” past time.
In fact, I don’t think anyone that
is satisfied and content and truly happy with their life goes home and says, “YOU
KNO WHAT? I think I’m going to look at porn and jack off because it will make
my day THAT MUCH MORE SPECIAL!” That seems like an impossibility to me. Maybe
that’s because I can’t perceive what a normal person thinks.
I’m addicted. And it’s like a
cancer. If I don’t take my “pills” and go in for “treatments” and have “check-ups”
with my “doctor”, it will not stay in remission, it will kill me. People that
have leprosy have an exercise that they have to do ALL the time. It’s called
VSE; meaning Visual Surveillance of Extremities. They do this because they lose
feeling in their limbs and sometimes don’t realize that they’ve hurt themselves
until the wound has festered and rotted. It is the most important thing to maintaining
good health for a leprosy patient. You have to live it, think it, do it, all
the time. I think of maintaining sobriety as the same thing. It’s got to be
kept in the forefront of my mind, why? Because like the leprosy patient whose
nerve endings are dead so he can’t feel pain, I’ve got to look at the actions I
take, the thoughts I think, and where my eyes go. ALL THE TIME. And not even
that, I’ve got to rely on someone else whose been where I’m at and whose a lot
longer in sobriety than me to be able to see the things I am doing/not doing
because I’m so blinded by my false reality, my desire for fantasy.
Why? Because I’m addicted. I could care less what someone says about
masturbation being healthy and that “studies show…” because its (the
masturbation/acting on lust) is killing me. I’ve witnessed it. Like the leper
that sees their body parts and skin falling off, this is happening to me.
This website is for those suffering
from an addiction to lust or who want to know about it from the people
that are addicted. And its been a great
help to me.
This makes me mad / cry / scream / what does it take to WAKE HIM UP ??
ReplyDeleteWhy did you get this ? When did you get it ? What finally clicked , snapped ??? I need a miracle .
I am sure glad YOU did get it . I honestly believe I could weather slips , falls, even relapse if there were any vulnerability and openness. Maybe not , this is all so confusing .
Thank you for promoting Andrew . I only know of him online and sometimes I wonder if he is a made up recovered addict and its just all too good to be true . Maybe just a little suspicious huh , ya think ?!
:)
I'm sorry for the pain and anguish you must be going through. If it is anything like what my wife has gone through, I am sorry.
ReplyDeleteYou asked me when I got it and how I got it and why I got it. The truth is I don't know if I have fully got it. I don't have a long time of sobriety. But I want to have it whatever it is. at the beginning of last year my wife kicked me out. it was for good reason. I had relapsed and lied about it yet again. I was not vulnerable with her.
We were separated for 7 months. The things that helped me through the seven months and even now; were seeing a psychologist, reading Andrew's book, and being kicked out.
When I was allowed to come back home I was a different man. But gradually over time my expectations turned into resentments. I relapsed. I have since had to change my view of what a relapse is for me. A relapse is continuing to not be vulnerable with my wife over a specific period of time. Why? Because if I'm not vulnerable I WILL relapse.
I didn't tell her about it. I kept thinking (as I'd always done) if I just didn't do it again things would be okay. She found out and confronted me and I told her and was subsequently kicked out again.
As I stated in previous posts. I don't believe addicts respond to love. It is foreign to us and we don't trust it. We do not feel safe with love. We are too far gone to recognize it as help and support. But we do respond to pain and loss. It shocks us into reality. It's like the PASG manual and the AA book teach. "The addict WILL NOT change until the fear of the problem becomes WORSE than the fear of the solution."
if there is one thing I am afraid of it is pain and loss. I guess that's 2 things.
So ultimately, what an addict needs to do to change, is suffer the consequences of his actions. He needs to have consequences. That may be sleeping in another room, maybe separating, or it may be divorce and a restraining order.
You have every right to be angry. But your anger will not change him, why? Because most likely he's grown up in a home where he was always in trouble. So he's learned to tune it out and already accepts himself as a failure (how could he not). Being told what he needs to do isn't going to help either because he's most likely gotten a lot of that already growing up (and he's an addict so he already thinks he knows everything).
Give him consequences. Not for his sake, but for yours. YOU need to move forward. And if he's not being vulnerable then he isn't safe for you. It is okay and probably right for you to tell him something like, "if you continue to not be vulnerable to me, I will be emotionally closed off to you (and physically) because it is not safe for me."
Have you read the book Boundaries? It is an awesome book that can help you feel good about yourself and self progress.
For me separation was very beneficial. It was enough pain and loss for me to look with reality and realize I don't want to be an addict.
As for Andrew, haha, I know what you mean. I'm from Arizona, and the number of addicts that have years of sobriety are few, the ones I feel are telling the truth are even fewer. But I believe he is real. At least I understand him as one addict to another if that makes sense. He feels real. And the things he has written have benefited me the most.
If you aren't already, my wife is a WoPa (wives of porn addicts) it's a group, and she's found so much safety and healing there. If you'd like I can put you in touch with her.
Thanks for your comment. If there's any more help I can offer let me know!
I SO appreciate your insight and take it in ! Just for understanding he was the hero , pet , spoiled brat of the family who could do no wrong, he is extremely good looking , has had a golden spoon all his life , and I am the FIRST person to ever put any serious restraints him . A perfect set up for deep resentment . He is funny,not depressed , 99% of the time happy , not down at all. And he means it , counselors ask him that question often - are you depressed , how is your self esteem ....? Oh good , no I''m good. Is the answer. He means it . Your right that he accepts himself as a failure , BUT his brain does not call it failure , his brain changed it to " a MAN " ages ago . His model and all models did the same behavior so he is just a typical man - in his mind .
ReplyDeleteYou are right also , that he tuned me out long ago , like the day after he told me a sliver of it all !! From that day every time it comes up he is bitter . I said to him exactly what you said to say long ago , detached is completely normal for me , hate it but it is the only way too function . He is an intimacy anorexic and this works out GREAT in his eyes ! I cannot give a consequence besides divorce that will faze him , really . He can exist like this forever , he has , its been our marriage for way too long . That is probably another strike against us , he is an old dog and these are such ingrained ways anything else - like CLOSE ! - is uncomfortable and scary . Actually talking to him is a consequence , he hates talking .
I know I am being pesty on a mans blog . This situation has been going on way too long , in that time one thing I have noticed in a lot of recovery models as in ; counselors , groups , conferences , books , webinars ......is this big HOLE called , " women and their pain over here with women and men over here getting help from men ." Am I making any sense ? One conference we went to there was a little time of expressing their pain from the wives . Seeing or hearing pain out of OTHER wives has brought more empathy from him than any man has been able to teach , tell , explain to him . He tunes them out the same as me . Of course it hurts that he can care how another woman feels more than me because of his deep resentment , but its a start . I am detached , quiet , usually just stay away . We talk some but its the usual surface . Crappy . So here I am online using the words i wish he would hear ....Sorry . I totally get what your saying . But I do hope some man out there gets a glimpse of whats going on in the heart of his wife in the days before she meets with the lawyer and has had enough of the pain . I do believe this is a serious hole therapists need to address . At he same time i am NOT comfortable with sex addict 12 steps with both men and women , so would like to see a safe place to share that is MEANT for the men to see or hear . Thank you for listening , you are very patient .
That sounds terrible. I'm sorry. What would be best for YOU to do for YOU?
ReplyDeleteHave you told him how you feel without using the "you" word? Just that your feeling hurt and alone and depressed? Just wondering. I know for me when I hear my wife's painful feelings and then she puts in the "you" comments (and she's right, I am usually the cause of her hurt feelings) but I automatically want to get defensive. It's not right for me to get defensive. And I'm improving at getting over that defensiveness and being able to listen.
Maybe you should talk to him about your feelings all the time. The reason he gets bitter and defensive when you talk is that it hits so close to home. He realizes he is the bad guy in the story. He's the one that unloaded a machine gun on you. It's painful to realize that I killed my wife's safety and peace and harmony and self image.
When he hears about other women that have been through it, he can feel empathy for them because he didn't cause their pain. (At least it's easier to believe that) and he has no negative attachments to other women. They've never tried to "hurt" him. (Because he views your anger at his actions -which is completely justified for you to have-as you being hurtful)
And he's not happy. It is a law of the universe, of eternity, that wickedness never was happiness. No one is above this law. It is impossible. He may be good at faking it, because lust gives a person a rush that tries to imitate happy feelings, but it's not happiness, it's body excitement. He can tell counselors he's good and fine, and this is why no counselor can help him, because he's not telling the truth. And he's not accepting the truth.
He needs to be forced into a circumstance where he gives up control and realizes the "control" he had was never really there.
This "Rock bottom" will only come with a huge blow to his pride. And as an addict, he will not change willingly.
And if he's not willing to change, and there is no way you can change him, then the only thing that can be done is pray to God he hits his rock bottom. And you need to move on with your life
***here's the rest of my comment. It was too long so I had to chop it.***
ReplyDeleteIt's like what my therapist told me about me wanting my father to be a real father. He said that it would never happen. That i never had a good father and i have to accept it, i need to grieve about it, even have a funeral if i must, but accept that the "good" father i wanted is dead and i will never get him.
It sucks. I can only imagine the pain of your circumstance and I'm sure the real thing is so much more painful and despairing. No one should EVER have to go through what you have gone through.
Do what you need to do to find happiness for yourself. Is that divorce? Separation? Or is it continuing on? I don't know. Have you prayed about it and gotten mixed feelings?
I know for me, most of my questions are never answered with a yes or no. Should I leave, should I stay? God usually tells me, both of these choices are good. They are yours to make. Both of these choices will come with hardships, sadness, disappointment, but there will be good and happy moments with each. As long as YOU do the right thing, YOU will find happiness. Each decision has experiences attached that will not be gained by choosing the other path, but all experience is for your good. (Just might not be enjoyable during the experience).
But know that if you do what you know to be right, you will find happiness and serenity. This is also an unbreakable law of eternity. The road might be rough, the seas might rise up and down you. But if you do what you know to be right and true for you, you will be like the anti-nephi-lehis, and fear of everything and anything will lose its sting. Because you will know in whom you have trusted. A God who has to (and wants to) obey the laws of eternity and give you the happiness, peace, rest, love that you have deserved.
My prayers are for you. God bless you. You deserve it.
Yes I do , and thank you . Hope.
ReplyDeleteAnoni Mouse, you rock!
ReplyDeleteTHANKS!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete