Wednesday, February 25, 2015

Is Lust okay for "Normal" Men? My Comment to Some Comments on an Article in Rowboat and Marbles


I commented on rowboat and marbles to this post and its comments:  http://rowboatandmarbles.org/fifty-shades-of-grey-two-shades-of-lust.html

I know it might be kind of cheesy to post my comment to a post, but it was so long and I thought the information might be beneficial to some. So here it is. 


I’m addicted to Lust, I’m also addicted to food. Like Andrew has said before, I don’t know how “normal” men perceive lust. I don’t know if it can ever be a healthy thing, just like eating a supersized triple cheese burger and an ice cream Sunday are ever healthy. Sure the burger isn’t killing you by itself, but is it healthy? I’ve heard about people that “role play”, that watch “sexy movies”, and wear lingerie to seduce or entice their spouse.  I could be wrong, like I said, I’m not a “normal” guy. But WHY do these people initiate these types of behavior? WHY is wearing lingerie a turn on for certain men? If they are normal and don’t have any form of lust addiction and it isn’t a problem then why do it? Is it for “fun”? If it’s for fun, why is it necessary? If their completely satisfied with their relationship without these activities, then what is the point in doing them?
     To me, and I’m an addict so I don’t know NMB (“Normal” Man Behavior). If these activities give someone something “extra” to their relationship. A way of “bonding” that wasn’t present before, it stands to reason that there is something lacking and is trying to be made up for? That’s just my thoughts on it.
    And about shame, I don’t know if someone can really shame someone else if they aren’t meaning to. I know there are people that like to shame others. In my experience most addicts had parents that were good at this. But are there people that just feel shame when someone says something that triggers something the person already feels shameful about?
    Like I went to the doctor the other day saw how much a weighed, most I’ve ever weighed in my life, and I felt totally ashamed. I went through a couple days of feeling shameful and not realizing why until I remembered how I felt at the doctor’s. They didn’t do anything to shame me. I was already there.
    I know that’s kind of getting off the subject so I’ll go back to lust. I guess I don’t see the point in going on a website that is about lust addiction and then getting on someone for assuming that everyone has an addiction to lust. I would guess that most “normal” men, (and I use these quotations not as a pun or putdown or with any sarcasm. I now that being “normal” isn’t really normal because everyone is different. That’s why I put quotations around the “normal”, I’m just saying “normal” as in, people who don’t have an addiction.) anyways, I would guess that most “normal” men wouldn’t even be looking for this site or reading too far into it because they wouldn’t need to.
    I don’t believe that the Mormon church has more addicts than non-LDS people. I just believe that most of the rest of the world doesn’t see a big deal in masturbation, lust, sex, pornography, and so don’t ever answer surveys about it.
    I don’t know if there’s really a genuine point for what I have to say in this comment, just that my feelings were hurt that someone would suggest a little bit of lust is okay and saying their an addict also. I just don’t get it I guess. I think drinking any amount of alcohol is unhealthy. Sure, they may not go drop dead drunk, but going over the healthy prospects of drinking a little bit of alcohol, or that just a little bit doesn’t hurt, makes no difference if God decreed us not to drink it. God didn’t say, “If thou lusteth in thy heart it is the same….unless it’s with your wife, then a little bit is okay.” I think he asks us to stay away from these things because they have the ability to impair judgment. Because they have the ability to take away our control. They take away our ability to act, and not be acted upon. It’s the same with everything. When I am hungry and stop at a Carls Jr. or Burger King, that whopper meal supersized with a caffeinated beverage has power over me. I am acted upon by the thought of deliciousness. And that’s because I feel like the larger and juicier the meal, the further away from stress I’ll be.
    God wants us to be agents unto ourselves. That means that anything that exerts power over us makes us unfit for the kingdom of God. Whether it’s an addiction or not. Does overeating keep me from obeying the commandments? No. Does acting on lust keep me from obeying the commandments? Absolutely.
    Lust creates a false reality in me. If my wife wore lingerie, I would be looking at the fantasy of my wife, which isn’t my wife. If we role played it would be the same. If we watched sexy movies it would be the same. And for me to think that a little bit of lust is okay if I’m “normal” that just opens the doorway for me to lie to myself later on when I have long term sobriety. I’ll think, “well normal men can lust just a little bit. I’ve been sober for a long time, so I’m sure I can lust just a little bit.” And since so many men are addicted to lust, that 5% that isn’t probably doesn’t mind that I think as if everyone is on the path to becoming addicted to lust, or working on their lust addiction.

5 comments:

  1. Thank you for saying this . Part of me just believes ALL people are actually addicts at heart , at least feel an extremely strong pull to lust continually. Men maybe even more so . I believe going to lust is black and white . If you go to lust you have turn away from God and your wife . And all that each stands for. Turning in love to your wife feels drastically different than lust . Not that I have felt a ton of love without lust in the mix as well , but when I did it had nothing to do with sex. Having come into the marriage addicted to porn ages ago I don't think I can even grasp how non-lust sex would feel , with him.
    I am honestly having a really hard time believing you actually think this way . Like are you for real ? ha ! I know your a long way from perfect and in this fight very much , but since you are understanding this part especially, do you observe very many in your group or know many who are not going to a false reality , fantasy ? I think this quest I am on lately is to restore my hope that ANY real men are actually overcoming this . Searching for hope , i need to make a blog and do surveys ! ''''/

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  2. don't like the'' men more so'' line, this is my form of a retraction - ALL of us are pulled to lust , me more to chocolate and I am definitely addicted to trying to fix THIS - FOR SURE :(

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  3. I believe any form of lust is bad. Like you said, I think lust is the false perception of love and attachment. Lust is what Satan would have me feel, love is what God would have me feel.
    As for if guys in the groups I go to and whether they go to fantasy/lust or not; most I would say DO fantasize and lust on a regular basis. If anyone acts out its because they are or have been lusting and fantasizing, and I don't know many people who have more than a few months of sobriety. Of the others that say they have longer sobriety, I don't believe most of them. All the ones that DO have lots of sobriety do understand that fantasy and lust are killers and do what they can to not have that in their lives.
    I've heard of people abstaining from sex for 90 days (as well as not viewing anything with sexual intent or fantasizing.) Because at 90 days the brain begins to disconnect from addictive impulses and behind to form new connections. I think this would be a great way to come back into a relationship with a more pure heart and the ability to be physically and emotionally and spiritually intimate with your wife/spouse without the decepticons and lust and fantasizing.
    I don't know many men, but I know it is possible. My sponsor has 3 years, that's the most I've met in someone personally and believed them.
    I do know it is possible for someone to get into recovery and stay in recovery. I don't know how I know it. but it has to be true. I know God could change Alma. I know he could change Alma the Younger. Zeezoram, Alma the Younger's son who wentafterthe harlot, king Limoni, the Anti-Nephi-Lehis. And if he could change them heart and soul, he can change me as well.

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  4. do the home work there is no such thing as sex addiction or porn addiction, you are only self identifying as an addict, because you have become conditioned from our youth that this is a problem, like satan in the garden see you are naked, quick hide... and since then had hid everything God made for intimacy and smothered it with porn so we wont touch it. Get over it and give yourself permission to learn to enjoy sex and more yet, learn to help you wife atain the hioghest orgasum her body has need to experience, and make you and her a commitment to to always take her to heaven, Orgasum first before the man does. see if that wont change your sex shamned life...

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  5. hmmm....interesting thoughts.
    Would you like to know where my resources on sex/porn addiction come from? I've got plenty of them. MOST of them not Mormon.
    And actually, I wasn't conditioned to think sex is bad. I wasn't active in my religion until I was 14. And that was only because there were girls at my church that I liked. Haha.
    My dad was in the military and he really didn't care about what we knew about sex. I don't remember the first time I've seen porn because I'd always seen it on the movies we were aloud to watch at home. Not to mention the descriptive stuff my dad would talk about.
    I did teach myself to feel ashamed about it though. It had nothing to do with bishops, teachers, leaders, or the church. I had already learned a deep seeded lie about myself, that I wasn't good enough, and that "real" love was sex.
    These negative core beliefs helped me find lust as a sort of "antidote" for my feelings of rejection and self loathing which just precipitated the feelings of being alone, not good enough, unworthy of "love". Shame. I taught myself that I was bad for looking at porn and masturbating, or even thinking about sex. So yes, my own shame caused me to keep using.
    I do think you are right though. Satan does hide everything God made for intimacy and smothered it with porn, lingerie, sex toys, all that stuff. As usual he takes the things that are the best gifts and turns them into the worst vices.
    As for sex. I have sex. I like sex. But sex isn't the goal anymore. I don't LOVE sex. I don't need sex. Why? Because sex isn't the answer. Sex doesn't mean I'm loved or lovable. Sex is a biproduct of real connection and real (unsexual) intimacy with my wife. Why? Because real emotional connection with my wife IS love. It's what brings happiness and security to me. I now have a respect for my wife that I never had before.
    I hope this clarifies some things. Thanks for your comments. If you'd like a list of my resources just let me know!

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