tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post4403524107666741847..comments2023-11-20T02:15:26.333-08:00Comments on An LDS Addict: The LDS ARP 90 Day Program...No BuenoAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-4018184943029286602018-12-13T00:21:38.011-08:002018-12-13T00:21:38.011-08:00When it comes to drug and alcohol rehab there are ...When it comes to drug and alcohol rehab there are many treatment options.For some individuals, any monetary cost of alcohol or drug addiction rehab is too much.<br /><a href="http://www.addictionrehabcenters.com/" rel="nofollow">detox centers in indiana</a>pamelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11128134885970566172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-377951808347612802018-08-27T08:54:30.121-07:002018-08-27T08:54:30.121-07:00This may sound a little melodramatic, but arpsuppo...This may sound a little melodramatic, but arpsupport.org set me back several years in my recovery.<br /><br />I can say that because it was 3 years ago that I went through it, and due to the shame and counter-productive techniques from that program, I am now starting over. This time I have a nationally-renowned therapist and when I told him about some of the principles of arpsupport.org, he was concerned. In particular, the requirement of perfect abstinence and perfect step work exacerbates the addiction instead of helping it. I had a slip about 20 days in but had been told at the beginning of the program that if I slipped, I'd be kicked out. So, I lied to my sponsor about the slip because I wanted to keep going in the program... and thus, the shame cycle began.<br /><br />Then there are minimum requirements of coursework. For example, if you don't have at least 100 items in each of 7 or 8 tabs for your Step 4 inventory, then you're kicked out of the program. I simply didn’t have that many despite feeling like I had done a thorough job with all my fears, resentments, emotions, etc.<br />Finally, towards the end of the program, my sponsor started talking to me about becoming a sponsor as soon as the 90 days was up. I told him that I was not ready, that I had not actually been sober for the 90 days, and that I was feeling new resentments because of the artificial and unhelpful minimum requirements on the step work. He talked to Mark G., the head of ARP Support, and told me that Mark told him he had to drop me immediately as a sponsee and not work with me anymore.<br /><br />I think this is what happens when someone with good intentions, but who is not professionally trained, tries to start a program. Perhaps Mark is a good guy, but he’s an electrician, not a sexual addiction expert, counselor, or therapist.<br /><br />I recommend sticking with a program that is backed by a professional, based on research, and that uses legitimate recovery techniques and principles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-995263477781168332018-08-10T01:51:54.573-07:002018-08-10T01:51:54.573-07:00I am exceptionally upbeat to peruse your article i...I am exceptionally upbeat to peruse your article it's extremely usefull for me and I am completly happy with your blog.<br /><a href="https://illinoisaddictionresources.com" rel="nofollow">alcohol detox in chicago</a> | <a href="https://illinoisaddictionresources.com" rel="nofollow">addiction treatment in illinois</a> | <a href="https://illinoisaddictionresources.com" rel="nofollow">alcohol rehab in illinois</a>drugrehabsdrughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16800447741813182926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-12004381026996196472018-08-07T04:59:12.722-07:002018-08-07T04:59:12.722-07:00Drinking causes internal bleeding by damaging the ...Drinking causes internal bleeding by damaging the lining of the stomach but also the lining of the esophagus. <br /><a href="http://www.addictionrehabcenters.com/drug-addiction/marijuana-abuse-addiction/how-long-does-marijuana-stay-in-your-system/" rel="nofollow">How long does marijuana stay in your system</a><br /><a href="http://www.addictionrehabcenters.com/" rel="nofollow">addiction rehab center</a><br />pamelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11128134885970566172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-67111315677793722562018-06-23T21:47:39.615-07:002018-06-23T21:47:39.615-07:00Not sure how arp is done elsewhere but here in Uta...Not sure how arp is done elsewhere but here in Utah I've never heard of being a sponsor in 90 days. That sounds blasphemous, I am a crystal meth addict and was only able to find sobriety thru arp because it uses the atonement I'm close to one year clean and I worked my steps my program at my place and only now that im at almost one year sober and now with people telling me how much I move them and the change in me and the uplift i am have i decided I am ready to sponsor. If you feel like there is something wrong with the program let it be known Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00963844074845756564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-84538862098338959312018-02-15T10:44:48.711-08:002018-02-15T10:44:48.711-08:00I know this is an old thread, and I'm not sure...I know this is an old thread, and I'm not sure exactly how I stumbled across it, but here I am.<br /><br />I did want to clarify that the program spoken about here is not the actual ARP Program, but a guy who uses the ARP material as the curriculum for his program. I say that as to not tarnish the ARP program (at least, not for this).<br /><br />That said, this program that you speak up raised a huge red flag for me when I stumbled on its website a few years back. Working blindly with a sponsor you've never met, behind a computer, and expecting to be open and vulnerable.... not a great recipe for success. Then, when you couple on the regime of daily assignments/check-ins/meetings (which is fine on their own) and the shame and judgement received if ya fall short (isn't recovery about tripping and falling and getting up again, anyway?) is just awful. Shame and judgement have no place in recovery. There is already enough of that in the world, and frankly, that's what drives us to use anyway. Sheesh.<br /><br />So I have steered absolutely clear of the entire program for this very reason.<br /><br />Also, this is not to discount that the program may have worked for some. If it did/does, that's great. But to say that it ought to work for everyone, and if it doesn't work for someone to make it sound like there is something wrong with them (as opposed to there being something wrong with the program) is just wrong, and frankly not God's way.<br /><br />We are all climbing the same recovery mountain, but we aren't all taking the same exact path. Some wander more than others. Some take breaks. Some are faster or slower. Some stop to smell the flowers. Some tumble to the bottom. We are all different. We aren't robots. We are children.The Lighthouse Coalitionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07313283867022797916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-81485681178633456732017-08-07T20:49:50.317-07:002017-08-07T20:49:50.317-07:00PASG = Pornography Addiction Support Group, or the...PASG = Pornography Addiction Support Group, or the pornography addiction-centric ARP meetings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-31941599262877662882017-06-07T19:45:33.893-07:002017-06-07T19:45:33.893-07:00I enjoyed reading these comments and to be honest ...I enjoyed reading these comments and to be honest feel guilty about not continuing with the ARP program it has helped me begin to understand my relationship with God and Christ. I have attended several APR meetings and felt while sharing was helpful I needed more give and take and have wanted to get a sponsor but never opened my mouth to get one. What does PASG stand for and how do I find SA meetings?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-21201192390306821202016-09-29T03:44:27.452-07:002016-09-29T03:44:27.452-07:00I like the idea of this "expectations meeting...I like the idea of this "expectations meeting" That's a really good idea. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-10369795115004771252016-09-29T03:41:13.416-07:002016-09-29T03:41:13.416-07:00Oh man, that is terrible! I'm sorry man. Your ...Oh man, that is terrible! I'm sorry man. Your experience is not unlike many I've heard from those who have gone through this gauntlet. <br />It takes a lot of courage to speak up and state what went on with you. Thanks for sharing. <br />To me, evidence of genuine sobriety is shown by behavior change, and behavior change that can be seen, aligning more with Christ. <br />What I've been told by several men who've tried to go through this, shows me there's no genuine development of Christ like behavior. In fact, it appears to be the opposite. <br />Who gives the right to tell someone they aren't able to sponsor? <br />In SA the requirements for sponsorship are; be further along in the program and sobriety than the one you sponsor. Who gives the right to take away someone's sponsees? If the sponsee wants to continue with his sponsor, it is his choice. AGENCY. <br />From what I know of God, and granted that isn't a ton, but I do know this, that the most important thing to God is our agency, our ability to choose. <br />I feel for you man, and from what you've said I am willing to bet that you will make a great sponsor to those who come to you for help and support. I can see that you really care. That's freaking awesome man. Good for you. <br />And that's awesome that you have 8 months sobriety. Every day we are sober is a miracle from God. And you've got 8 months worth of miracles to look on for thanks and love to God. <br />Thank you for sharing!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-71474201826094386102016-09-27T22:43:18.912-07:002016-09-27T22:43:18.912-07:00I completed the 90 day program to the best of my a...I completed the 90 day program to the best of my ability and was immediately thrust into the position of sponsor. I can say that the 90 days of intense work, sobriety, and attending 2 PASG meetings a week did help. I received a very a good sponsor who did show compassion and kindness while I gave all I could to the program. Then it came to the day where I worked all twelve steps and guess what you are now a sponsor! I was stressed out of my mind thinking it was to soon but I did make a commitment and I intended to make good on that. I talked to Mark G and he preached to me for almost two hours about the new 12 week program using Google Drive. After being more confused and nervous after talking to him I was set up to take sponsees. I did my best but I was flooded with three guys who I didnt know how to help other than relate to and encourage. Again I did my best to offer empathy and not look holier than thou. Mark then proceeded to send out threatening emails every couple weeks or so to his brand new sponsors about dropping those who werent committed. I thought this was strange and did not drop anyone because I knew how hard it was to do this program. <br />After this one of my younger guys who really tried hard informed me that he couldnt do what the program demanded and wanted to stop. I felt so bad because he was making progress but wished him all the luck in the world and my phone number if he ever needed help with anything. After I told this to Mark I was immediately sent another sponsee and then another. I had four guys at one point who needed a lot of support and I spent the time to make sure I could be available for them. I was overwhelmed with the amount I was doing almost two to three hours a day. I know I could have spent less time with these guys but I wanted to put my whole heart into helping and I didnt know what was really required of a sponsor. <br />Skip forward to another threatening email from Mark this last weekend that I and others werent doing their daily accountability and would be dropped as sponsors. I immediately email back saying that I was sorry and would try harder with the spreadsheet which is a chore to fill out everyday. I was then told I was being a terrible example and hypocrite and I needed to step down immediately. I wrote back in very positive way and all of sudden I get an email back from him again saying I am no longer a sponsor and I have lost my sponsees. Wait what? Who made you God to tell me these things and attack my character?! Not sure if anyone has a had a similar experience but that took its toll on me today. Thanks for your insight Anoni it helped me a lot sir. I am eight months sober now and intend to keep it that way, I can only do that by relying on the merits of the Savior, this is the one good thing it taught me in the 90 day program. Best of luck to all of you who struggle with this addiction. I am now going to try and be a sponsor at a local level if possible.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-67958357406947215852016-09-16T10:36:19.427-07:002016-09-16T10:36:19.427-07:001. What is an ideal time line for working the 12 s...1. What is an ideal time line for working the 12 steps? To have no time line at all, to me, is an invitation for an addict to continue putting it off and not really making real changes at all - making recovery work a 2nd or 3rd or lower priority.<br /><br />#1The ideal time line for me is one set by my higher power. Who knows best what I need and when I need it? I wasn’t ready to make some amends until I had worked through my more serious character weaknesses. Worked, processed, healed. The steps are in order for a reason. I needed faith in a higher power before I could surrender my will to him. I needed to surrender my will before I could address my resentments, fear, and harms. I needed to complete steps4 and 5 before I could focus on my character weaknesses. I needed to heal from character weaknesses before I could make healthy amends. If I rushed past steps 1-7 because of schedule, my amends and disclosures could have been harmful and unknowingly filled with pride, blame, shame, etc. I believe rushing the steps can hurt recovery as well as sitting on them for eternity.<br /><br /><br />2. When is it ok to drop a sponsee who continues to not work the steps, not stay sober, and not keep commitments? For me, sponsoring can be triggering when I have a sponsee who isn't reaching out, isn't really doing anything he says he's doing, and makes me feel like he's got me as a sponsor mainly to appease his wife or therapist who has told him to get a sponsor or else...<br /><br />#2 I am not in the business of dropping sponsees. There are a few guys who call me their sponsor, but never call me or work the steps. I talk to them at group and they know I am here if they ever want to start back up. Enabling? Nah, In working through step 6&7 I learned I cant take responsibility for anyone’s success or failure. The 2 major character weaknesses I’m still working through is, “pat on the back syndrome” and “blaming myself for others actions”. Deadly in a sponsorship role because I’m always wanting recognition for how awesome I am or second guessing whether I was the cause a sponsees relapse. <br />If you’re thinking about actually dropping a sponsee, pray about it and talk with your own sponsor. I’m guessing there are some unhealthy sponsee/sponsor relationship that need separating.<br /><br />3. What has been the best way you've worked the 12 steps with a sponsor?<br /><br />We work it out of the big book and the white book. I think there are some plain and precious truths that are lost in the ARP manual. I know...it has the LDS church stamp on the back. My sponsor and I had an expectation meeting in the beginning. We discussed boundaries and both our expectations were clearly identified so there were no surprises down the road (theoretically). A few things like I’m responsible to keep track of where I am in the steps. If I am sitting at home without an assignment, I need to call and get one. We met every week in the beginning, but we worked the steps as fast as I was grasping the concepts, doing my lists, and prayer work. I chose a sponsor who knows what he’s doing and listens to his higher power. I basically skipped steps 1 and 2. That was a disservice to me as I take new sponsees through steps 1&2. I did what he asked and pushed to get through the steps. If I wasn’t getting something he wouldn’t let me move on. It took me about 6 months to get through steps 1-4 and another 2 months to get through steps 5-9. These days we meet and mostly talk about my sponsees and how to best help them which in turn helps me continue to work the steps.<br /><br />This is what has worked for me so take what you need and leave the rest.<br />Marshmudaddict<br />(Utah)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-40646700760021930332016-09-12T01:00:41.560-07:002016-09-12T01:00:41.560-07:00Oh yeah, and serious EMDR therapy. And God.Oh yeah, and serious EMDR therapy. And God.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-65014751895104509352016-09-12T00:59:52.010-07:002016-09-12T00:59:52.010-07:00Yeah I've found SA to be the best program as w...Yeah I've found SA to be the best program as well. We were SAL for awhile, but as we learned more and more about SAL we decided to go with SA because it held more true to the 12 Traditions. And I've loved it. Seen more behavioral change here than anywhere else. <br /><br />Like I've said, maybe the 90 day program does work for some people, I've just never met any of them. If it works for some then good for them! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-19948886117232172642016-09-12T00:56:23.002-07:002016-09-12T00:56:23.002-07:00haha, SA. Sexaholics Anonymous. What else would I ...haha, SA. Sexaholics Anonymous. What else would I offer? It's the only thing that's worked. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-25724198763197799942016-09-12T00:54:35.944-07:002016-09-12T00:54:35.944-07:00I go to SA. I've gone through PASG multiple ti...I go to SA. I've gone through PASG multiple times. It didn't help much even though I felt like it did at the time. But there was no lasting behavioral change. I have a sponsor through SA with 2+ years of sobriety, which to us means no slips, no relapses. He had a sponsor through AA.<br />I believe that demanding a timeline for working the steps forces one to do something against their will. I know God doesn't work that way. I know I don't work that way. I've had sponsors who forced, and I found myself doing the work, but not much more. I didn't WANT change, and so change didn't happen to me. <br />Usually, when I hear people talk about how well they like the structure of the 90 day program, its from guys who have only been going through PASG, which has NO structure. SO yeah, they like what the 90 Day program has to offer. It makes sense. <br />A guy that doesn't work isn't working. He isn't wanting to work. Do I drop him? I can really care less if he's got me just to appease his wife or therapist. It doesn't help him and it doesn't help me. He'll relapse sooner or later, and when his wife decides she's had enough, he'll either change or he wont. If that is triggering to me, (and I admit, I used to get stressed out by this) but that only means that I am having a problem with me. This is something that I need to work on, not him. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-41628042726733583162016-09-12T00:45:42.707-07:002016-09-12T00:45:42.707-07:00Hahaha, you sound like the people that say that ab...Hahaha, you sound like the people that say that about drinking. "You can't condemn it until you try it." Actually, no, I don't have to try something to know it's wrong. Sorry man. I'm glad you've had a good experience. Let me know how that goes. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-60234338331310688752016-09-09T10:58:34.060-07:002016-09-09T10:58:34.060-07:00I appreciated what was said. It seems to match the...I appreciated what was said. It seems to match the sentiment of those I know who have “graduated” and moved on from that program. I can only share my own experience. Never tried the ARP 90 day, however I currently attend PASG, SAL, and SA. I dove head first when I started recovery and attended lots of mtgs. They appeal to different types of people. I personally feel more connected with God in my SA group. It’s a healthy group. I have not been impressed with PASG meetings and SAL. More and more it feels like a bunch of guys sharing philosophies of men mingled with scripture. It lends itself to confusion, shame, and religion soap boxing. “Brethren, WE are this and WE are that, and if WE only did this then WE would...” I could go on, UGHHH. The ARP 90 day program smells the same to me. My understanding of sponsor/sponsee relationships is from the SA and AA perspective. ARP 90 days seems to have good intentions. At this time I choose not to do ARP 90 day because I am finding a process that works for me. If my process stops working, I’m open to try something else. I currently have a sponsor and a few sponsees through SA. (poor guys) I sponsor them the way I was taught by my sponsor, what I pick up along the way, and as directed by my higher power. It’s been an amazing journey. If all addicts were the same, a cookie cutter approach would be the answer. That’s why I think the 90 day program works for certain cookies. <br /><br /><br />MarshmudaddictAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-58607173943318467662016-08-29T14:19:11.717-07:002016-08-29T14:19:11.717-07:00Wow... so what program do YOU offer? Wow... so what program do YOU offer? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-15075432655824857682016-08-08T10:22:28.954-07:002016-08-08T10:22:28.954-07:00The 90 Day program was a good experience for me wh...The 90 Day program was a good experience for me when I went through it. I have to agree that there are things I'd like to see different about the program, the main one being the primarily top level down management. Why Mark G won't allow others help the cause more, why all work has to be re-submitted back to him for "approval," the timeframe - these are a few of my questions.<br /><br />Ultimately, I feel like the biggest red-flag is an attempt by Mark (who I've talked to a few times on the phone - nice guy really) to control the outcome. No one can force another to live in recovery - it's a personal choice. <br /><br />For me, the 90 day program provided structure as I worked the steps all the way through the first time.<br /><br />As I've worked with sponsees since, I want that structure as well, but maybe fine tuned some.<br /><br />Questions I'd have for all of you reading this:<br /><br />1. What is an ideal timeline for working the 12 steps? To have no timeline at all, to me, is an invitation for an addict to continue putting it off and not really making real changes at all - making recovery work a 2nd or 3rd or lower priority.<br /><br />2. When is it ok to drop a sponsee who continues to not work the steps, not stay sober, and not keep commitments? For me, sponsoring can be triggering when I have a sponsee who isn't reaching out, isn't really doing anything he says he's doing, and makes me feel like he's got me as a sponsor mainly to appease his wife or therapist who has told him to get a sponsor or else...<br /><br />3. What has been the best way you've worked the 12 steps with a sponsor?<br /><br />Look forward to a reply.<br />Natehttp://atonementtoday.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-44613294196436295222016-07-30T07:19:00.523-07:002016-07-30T07:19:00.523-07:00Hmmm. Isn't a little disingenuous to condemn t...Hmmm. Isn't a little disingenuous to condemn the 90 day program when you've never worked it before? It's a great way to work the steps and get connected with a sponsor. The 90 day program was a great experience for me that taught me a lot. Your thoughts sound like confirmation bias to me. But it's a free country, and we're all on the same team. Good luck in your recovery my friend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-36875696844055270812016-07-27T01:23:49.687-07:002016-07-27T01:23:49.687-07:00That sucks. I'm sorry man. I agree that they d...That sucks. I'm sorry man. I agree that they do have some good material. Anything that helps right? But the fact that they wont share it? That's a bit ridiculous. Especially when coming from a group who claim to be predominantly Christian. I've heard lot's of stories like this about the owner of the program. I've not tried to contact the man myself, but solely based on what I've heard, I don't trust this guy's "sobriety". Anyone who tries to rule over a program of "recovery" with an iron fist has some pretty big character defects that don't seem to be changing...Another red flag when thinking about using this program.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-89770661542679944142016-07-26T18:22:33.448-07:002016-07-26T18:22:33.448-07:00Couldn't agree more with your assessment. I...Couldn't agree more with your assessment. I've tried the program a few times and had a few different sponsors. Only one of them was pretty good and I ended up losing him because he was kicked out of the program for disagreeing with the owner on the number requirements for Step 4. I honestly like the material itself and I recently tried to get it without going through the program (because I already have a sponsor). Of course, the owner said no way. Apparently I had to re-join their little club and get another 90-days sober sponsor who doesn't know the first thing about sponsoring and will never actually be there for me when I need him. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-67625839220693155762016-07-23T22:37:26.981-07:002016-07-23T22:37:26.981-07:00Oh thanks! Oh thanks! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11212780660642238124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5543526031591494400.post-2980470619935902472016-07-23T12:53:14.778-07:002016-07-23T12:53:14.778-07:00So...you might want to correct the link to arpsupp...So...you might want to correct the link to arpsupport.org, as the .com sends you to a spam/virus website. <br />Thanks for sharing your experience. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com